The article I wrote a few weeks back about the value of buying (and using) a radar detector (http://ericpetersautos.com/forums/sh…ad.php?t=15792) prompted several replies pointing out that in Virginia and DC – where detectors are still illegal – I ran the risk of being nailed by a “radar detector detector,” specifically, the Spectre III/Elite used (apparently) by many police. (See here: http://www.stalkerradar.com/spectreIV/redirect.html)
I looked into it a bit – and also have my own real world experience using the Valentine 1 (highly recommend this model; see here: http://www.valentine1.com/
) for about three years now in Virginia and thought I’d post what I know – or what seems likely – based on that.
First, I am pretty confident that the Virginia State Police and most local police in Virginia do not have the Spectre III or similar radar detection equipment. Either that, or the Valentine 1 is not detectable by them.
I have gotten away with using the V1 every single day for almost three years, on highways and secondary roads all over the state. Every time I drive – literally – the V1 has alerted me to a cop running radar, either coming at me from the opposite direction (moving car) or from a stationary unit parked off to the side of the road. Each time, I have slowed down – and sailed right past the cop without incident.
The cops don’t even look at me.
I don’t turn the V1 off, either. I usually just snatch it off the dash, where I “stealth mount” it using quick-release Velcro (which makes the unit much less visible since there’s no dangling power cord) before I get close enough to the cop for him to easily see the V1 sitting on my dashboard. However it is still on – so if the cops have a Spectre or other type of detector detector that is capable of picking out the V1, I would assume that by now at least one of them would have come after me to check for a radar detector.
But that has not happened.
It’s possible I’ve just been very lucky, but I doubt it. I drive a lot (probably 20,000 miles a year) in multiple different vehicles, all over the state.
My conclusions:
* Given that most people are cattle and will obey the law – no matter how unfair, stupid or even evil the law happens to be – the cops in VA assume that most people do not have radar detectors and so are not actively looking for them. Probably most departments – especially local ones, with more limited budgets – quite rationally conclude that there’s no real justification for spending $2,500 or more per unit to buy detector detectors, since most people are cattle and will not buy/use a radar detector if its illegal to do so.
(The side benefit here for people who aren’t cattle and use radar detectors anyway – despite the laaaaaaw – is that we have the element of surprise on our side. Since cops assume most people don’t have detectors, they don’t use tactics that assume most (or even many) drivers do have them. They just “paint” traffic with K or Ka, without much if any attempt to hide what they’re doing. This gives the handful of us with radar detectors a real advantage – in Virginia and DC, anyhow.)
* While police may be looking for them visually, they do not have effective radar detector detectors. I’ve read that the newer, top-of-the-line radar detectors such as my Valentine 1 and the Bell STi either can’t be picked out by detector detectors or their ID range is not enough for the cop to get the drop on you. If you read the technical specs. published by the manufacturer of the Spectre radar detector detector, you’ll see the effective range is somewhere around 1,000 feet out (from the cop to you). But the V1 (and, apparently, the Bell STi) is effective at much greater distances than that, so even if the cops have the Spectre, odds are you will detect them before they detect you. This jibes with my personal, real-world experience using the V1 in Virginia.
Bottom line –
It appears pretty safe to run with a radar detector in Virginia (can’t speak to the situation in DC) provided you use a high-end unit (forget about the cheap units; they’re a waste of money) and you’re careful to keep your unit low-profile by using the Velcro-on-the-dash mounting system, as mentioned earlier – which camouflages the unit and makes it virtually invisible to any lurking cop unless he’s literally right next to you. Always snatch the unit off the dash (and out of sight) when near cops or in urban areas/slow-moving traffic where your “piece” would be more visible. Most important of all – maintain high situational awareness. Be aware of your surroundings. Learn to recognize the signs of a cop. Become familiar with the types of cars they usually drive; where they typically run radar traps – and so on. Pay attention to the behavior of traffic around you. Etc.
To further stack the odds in your favor in places like VA and DC where radar detectors are illegal, do the following: When the unit goes off (especially Ka band, which is a guaranteed cop), slow to the speed limit, pull the detector off the dash and disconnect the power plug. Once the unit is off, it cannot be detected – so you’re absolutely sure of flying under the radar.
Enjoy the ride!
Some Police Departments use Radar Detector-Detectors(RDD) such as VG-2 and Spectre. VG-2 is not used much since it can only detect older radar detectors(RD). Spectre is the newer RDD in use. Only 3 RD’s are undetectable by Spectre…Escort Red Line, Beltronics STi and STi-R(Remote).
As you may know, Virginia is the only state that bans the use and sale of radar detectors. There is no evidence that the radar detector ban increases highway safety. Our nation’s fatality rates have fallen consistently for almost two decades. Virginia’s fatality rate has also fallen, but not any more dramatically than it has nationwide. Research has even shown that radar detector owners have a lower accident rate than motorists who do not own a detector.
Maintaining the ban is not in the best interest of Virginians or visitors to the state. I know and know of people that will not drive in Virginia due to this ban. Unjust enforcement practices are not unheard of, and radar detectors can keep safe motorists from being exploited by abusive speed traps. Likewise, the ban has a negative impact on Virginia’s business community. Electronic distributors lose business to neighboring states and Virginia misses out on valuable sales tax revenue.
Radar detector bans do not work. Research and experience show that radar detector bans do not result in lower accident rates, improved speed-limit compliance or reduce auto insurance expenditures.
• The Virginia radar detector ban is difficult and expensive to enforce. The Virginia ban diverts precious law enforcement resources from more important duties and this ban may be ILLEGAL.
• Radar detectors are legal in the rest of the nation, in all 49 other states. In fact, the first state to test a radar detector ban, Connecticut, repealed the law – it ruled the law was ineffective and unfair. It is time for our Virginia to join the rest of the nation.
• It has never been shown that radar detectors cause accidents or even encourage motorists to drive faster than they would otherwise. The Yankelovich – Clancy – Shulman Radar Detector Study conducted in 1987, showed that radar detector users drove an average of 34% further between accidents (233,933 miles versus 174,554 miles) than non radar detector users. The study also showed that they have much higher seat belt use compliance. If drivers with radar detectors have fewer accidents, it follows that they have reduced insurance costs – it is counterproductive to ban radar detectors.
• In a similar study performed in Great Britain by MORI in 2001 the summary reports that “Users (of radar detectors) appear to travel 50% further between accidents than non-users. In this survey the users interviewed traveling on average 217,353 miles between accidents compared to 143,401 miles between accidents of those non-users randomly drawn from the general public.” The MORI study also reported “Three quarters agree, perhaps unsurprisingly, that since purchasing a radar detector they have become more conscious about keeping to the speed limit…” and “Three in five detector users claim to have become a safer driver since purchasing a detector.”
• Modern radar detectors play a significant role in preventing accidents and laying the technology foundation for the Safety Warning System® (SWS). Radar detectors with SWS alert motorists to oncoming emergency vehicles, potential road hazards, and unusual traffic conditions. There are more than 10 million radar detectors with SWS in use nationwide. The federal government has earmarked $2.1 million for further study of the SWS over a three-year period of time. The U.S. Department of Transportation is administering grants to state and local governments to purchase the SWS system and study its effectiveness (for example, in the form of SWS transmitters for school buses and emergency vehicles). The drivers of Virginia deserve the right to the important safety benefits that SWS delivers.
Please sign this petition and help to repeal this ban and give drivers in Virginia the freedom to know if they are under surveillance and to use their property legally:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/repeal-the-virginia-radar-detector-ban
I just got busted in tappahannock va…The officer said he clocked me 71 in a 60 & in use of an illegal Radar detector…My Valentine 1 THAT I USED ROR 15 YEARS !!! I asked him how he got me…He replied We have new dectector dectectors !!!! $ 40.00 fine…WELL ?
Thought the fine for having a detector in Virginia was $500?
Still can’t believe the law in Virginia states they are illegal!
That sucks, Nick – sorry to hear it.
Some departments have detectors, some don’t. If you got 15 years of use out of your V1, it’s still a good deal. It probably saved you from getting a dozen tickets during that time. If they confiscate the V1 (or fine you) you’re out a few hundred bucks – one time hit. Two or three tickets would cost you a lot more – and not just the once. Your insurance co. would have probably jacked up your premiums – doubling or tripling the total costs. So, all in all, you’re still way ahead.
How did you mount your unit? It’s possible he saw the V1 and just told you he had a detector….
We’ll you guys are right…Frist though they do not confeicate the detector. They take possession right down the Brand and serial No. and return it on the spot. Seconed ,The fine IS $4o,oo ! I drive a 1996 Red Nissan 300ZX TT stage 4 Pristine conditition ! The Unit has been permanently mounted top center next to drivers visor. You cannot see it from outside due to tint ! 15 years two upgrades. Two other tickets in that time Instant on rounding a curve, I just feel vulnerable considering the how we like to RUN..Know what I mean guys .We think we can get some slack cause the speedometer is off due to larger wheels 4 mph at 70 already been calabrated..Due in court Feb. 17.Thanks
I don’t think you should have it permanently mounted anywhere. Should do like E-roc and velcro it on the dash for quick removal. If you have it permanently mounted you are basically permanently requesting a ticket for that same offense each time you are pulled.
$0.02
Nick – The permanent mount is a no-no in Virginia. It’s like having an open liter of Jack Daniels rolling around on the floor. If you get pulled/have to deal with a cop for any reason (including “safety checkpoints”) they’re gonna see it and you are screwed. My recommendation is a stealth mount system; I use Velcro to attach mine to the dash. Not only does this hide the power cord and make the unit itself virtually impossible to pick out visually unless the cop is literally right next to you – you can easily snatch it off the dash and stash it, if you see a cop or think a pull-over is imminent/possible. You could also mount it inside a Kleenex box or similar. The point is – do not let the cop see the unit!
PS I was traveling North, the Trooper was traveling South, he hit me with instant on, I was within the speed limit within a few sec. when he hit me again from the rear, He crested a hill out of sight I breath a sigh of releif, about 10 sec. later I saw him come ovet the hill crest & he was Bookin!Rolled up behind & lit me up…When he ruturned the unit he said here don’t use this again, I replied ,Dam thing dosn’t work anyway, he chuckled, patted me on the arm, said be careful out there..I replied ,thanks officer.
Rule 1: When you see a cop, slow down immediately. If the unit doesn’t go off, it just means the cop’s radar isn’t on – yet. He is (by law) supposed to make a visual estimate of speed first (in other words, he thinks you are speeding) then he paints you with the radar. You start with a major strike against you by driving a red sports car – because any cop nearby is going to focus on you in any pack of cars, even if you’re not the fastest moving one. So, you need to add more layers of defense. Don’t be the lead car; let a “rabbit” take point. If there’s a cop ahead running radar, the rabbit will get radar’d – and the V1 should warn you in plenty of time to slow to legal speed.
Understand I’ve been pulled other times for other reasons 15 years ! NO one has ever seen my radar ! The wireing travels through the cars moulding, You cannot see the unit from the outside front or back.
The Z is very low. The interior is black, the unit is black. There has never been any reason to pull and hide.The times I’ve been pulled I turn it off so ther’s no squawk. Never given an officer” Any reason “to look for anything ! You would understand if you were faimiler with the Z’s profile. It’s perfect.
Dude, I’m just saying it’s probably not a good idea to have the radar detector hard mounted in your car in Virginia. If your unit is not stowed when the cop walks up to your car, you are asking for him to notice it – and hit you with a big ticket/take the detector.
The whole point here is to avoid calling attention to yourself; to “fly under the radar.” You want to fade into the background; to be just another car in the crowd.
By driving a red 300ZX – with tinted windows – you’re already a target. Fair or not, like it or not, a cop is going to notice your car and look at it more closely than he would a silver Camry. The tinted windows give him legal probable cause to pull you over incidentally – even if you are doing exactly the speed limit. And then he’s going to look at your car much more closely, to see if he can find ticketable/chargeable offenses.
That’s reality.
I’ve been test driving new cars for almost 20 years – everything from the lowliest economy cars to six figure exotics – and I’m telling you, what you drive matters almost as much as how you drive.
If you’re going to drive a car like yours, then extra precautions should be taken. That means being super discreet with the radar detector – and (my advice) lose the tinted windows.
Tinted windows are a big NO NO in my book.
I was young once and thought they were the shit, but man did I pay (literally) for them each time I got pulled.
OK, OK, you guys are a hoot… The only tint is on the OEM front Windshield,about 4″…Understand it cannot be seen ! You have to have proable cause… to look for anything..NEVER has happened in 15 years.I’ve already spoken to Valentine…Their working on the problem Chuckle.to be continued. Oh you’ll love this ! My tag… SUPER-Z
Ha.. I’m suffering from premature geezerhood!
Your license plate alone is probable cause. -just messing
I’ve lost my license three times in my life and don’t want to do it again, so I don’t leave anything to chance that I can easily avoid. Just don’t like to have ANY reason whatsoever for the man to pay me anymore attention than anyone else.
Just to let you know I have my rear window on my toy car blacked out and the side windows at the legal limit (which is damn near no tint at all).
I didn’t read before that you mentioned the front window is tinted at the top. That doesn’t seem like too much of an attention grabber. Also, just noticed you mentioned the calibration is off. You can get out of jail with that excuse once. I say go for that and bring the paperwork with you. I’ve actually used that one twice (was lucky).
So the fine for a radar detector is only $40 and no points?
I’m considering purchasing one.
P.S. Have you checked out the forum?
You’re right that “probable cause” can (in practice/reality) be pretty much anything the cops wants it to be – these days. My point is, why do anything to arouse attention? Things like tinted windows (“4 inches” or not) and custom/vanity tags make you more noticeable. That custom tag may come back to bite you someday if you ever try to run from a cop. Or, your car (and you) get a “rep” because of the tag. Then they’re looking out for you. Bad news.
Again, just saying. My advice to you as someone who has been doing this a long time – and learned from experience what not to do!
I’m not addimmiting to anything, But there’s not a police car in the state of VA that can ever gain on me, IF I ever decided to run ! I knew a State Trooper years ago who had a TT Z. His advice , You have 3 min to make yourself invisible, Catch my drift ? Valentine is working on a soultion.
I just ordered a V1 last night! -dammit
See what ya’ll done made me do.
I’ll agree with you on stabbing the gas and going without hesitate can help sometimes. Been there done that.
Fact is it doesn’t matter if you are running 27lbs of boost on race gas bro, you ain’t out running the radio/CB!
Let me Be more clesr…3 min to get off the road ! And HIDE GET IT ? The Z is So Quick 3rd gear 115 4th 148 top end 170.
I’ve successfully run from cops a few times. It can be done, but speed is not the essential ingredient. Unless you live in a rural area, with wide open roads, 170 on the top is mostly theoretical. Go that fast in a crowded area and the odds are good you’ll wreck and kill yourself and/or other people, too.
What is essential is knowing when it’s feasible to run.
It’s feasible to run if you are in a situation where you have “the drop” on the cop. For example, he’s coming the other way and has to stop (or nearly stop) before he can turn around and come after you. Or he is by the side of the road as you pass by. This gives you a window of a few seconds to disappear. No more than that. The longer you stay on the road, the greater your chance of being caught. If you can get out of his line of sight, then turn off and hide someplace for an hour or two – then it’s reasonable to go for it.
But you need to be calm, know the roads – and have the judgment to know when to go for it.
If you have an easily identified car (or personal plates) your risk level is much higher. Don’t forget that the cop does not have to catch you. He just has to ID you. If he gets your plate, you are toast. They’ll just be waiting for you at your house when you eventually get back there.
“Eluding” (including “attempted” eluding) is a felony. They will also tack on “reckless driving” and and other charges, too. It is not to be fucked around with; they will take you to jail and if you are convicted, you will go back to jail, pay thousands in fines and probably not have a license for years.
I would only (and only have) run when I am already doing something bad enough to get into similar trouble – like running 100-plus – and I am pretty damn sure the cop didn’t get my plate and that the car I am in is not the only one like it for 50 miles around…
Just my 50 cents…
First off, that is total bullshit! How does everyone else only have 2 cents and you get 50?
In my couple successful runs having the drop and knowing the roads made it happen!
Never really got going with any amount of speed worth mentioning.
You are absoultley correct !!!
I agree totally…. I was trying to impress just how FAST/ Quick this Z is top end is irelivent .
Thanks Guys
Be patient Valentine is working on this problem !
What problem?
There is a Radar detector from Australia that can detect the Valentine ! Valentine is aware of this and is working on a counter soultion
You are absoutly correct !!! We’re on the same page !!! I was only trying to impress how fast/ Quick the Z really is. Top end is irrelevent ! I could not have said what you said any better…Thanks
Is there a points penalty for having a detector?
I am pretty sure the answer is yes. Let me check into it and find out fer sure!
Not in Va…$40.00 fine
Yeah, I think Nick is right. I searched for a bit last night. Isn’t it fucking amazing that anyone can find all the porn, anarchy cookbook, and everything else with the greatest of ease on the internet. Then when actually looking for something with a SMALL bit of importance, like say the laws/penalties/and fines, it’s damn impossible to locate!
It’s a misdemeanor $ 40.oo fine I have the summons ! And they return it after writting the summons ! You can have one in your car, BUT you cannot have a power cord to it.
They return on the spot right?
Just to be 100% clear. This V1 is $400 and I don’t wanna lose it.
If need be I’ll be hiding it like a mad man when I get pulled over! ha
The smart move is to do all you can to not be in the position of having the cop find it – so that he doesn’t take it. Call me paranoid – but I would not be surprised if the temporarily confiscated radar detector is returned in less than perfect operating condition. Wouldn’t be surprised if it “accidentally” got dropped a few times; maybe had some coffee spilled inside it…
Didn’t happen…Still works.. Just spoke to Valentine, working on a solution….Seems to need beter shelding,,, We’ll see
Code of Virginia
§ 46.2-1079. Radar detectors; demerit points not to be awarded.
This section shall not be construed to authorize the forfeiture to the Commonwealth of any such device or mechanism.
Got my V1 in the mail today!
Freaking pumped now!